The state of the art, of art: animated features vs human artists

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sear	The state of the art, of art: animated features vs human artists		Lead	[-]
Posts: 49254 06/27/08 09:36 AM CoAdmin.w/Grace06	Have you ever seen some of the Disney classic animated feature films? Some of the animation was self-indulgently challenging. A kitten walking across a bed cover, involving complicated geometry, all drawn by human hands, frame by frame. No longer. Since Toy Story computers, not human artists, have been drawing the animation. And the technology is advancing. Toy Story offers adequate animation. But compare it to the richer animation of Ratatouille. What's next? By Kirk Honeycutt LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - This is getting to sound like a broken record: Pixar Animation Studios has just topped itself. Again. In "WALL-E," following the sublime culinary slapstick of "Ratatouille," Pixar and director-writer Andrew Stanton -- officially the studio's ninth employee way back when -- have spun a whimsical sci-fi fantasy about robots 800 years into the future that has all the heart, soul, spirit and romance of the very best silent movies 60 years ago. Well, you don't expect robots to talk, do you? While the soundtrack is full of clanking noises, explosions, music and even dance numbers, there is little dialogue as such to get this story told. Stanton and his animation team punch across their terrific (and ecologically sound!) story by inventing a visual and aural language with which these robotic creatures can express a rainbow of emotions. The film is so clever and sophisticated that you worry, slightly, that it might be too clever to connect with mainstream audiences. But like those worries last year that having a rat for a hero in "Ratatouille" might throw off audiences, surely "WALL-E" will make that connection. It's so sweet and funny that the multitudes undoubtedly will surrender to its many charms. http://uk.reuters.com/article/filmNews/idUKN2740487720080627 Care to see it? The seven deadly sins are: 1. Gluttony 2. Anger 3. Envy 4. Greed 5. Lust 6. Pride 7. Sloth
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sear		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 49269 06/27/08 04:27 PM CoAdmin.w/Grace06	PS The first portion of this movie has been critically praised for its inventiveness. And its graphical realism has also been critically recognized. The seven deadly sins are: 1. Gluttony 2. Anger 3. Envy 4. Greed 5. Lust 6. Pride 7. Sloth
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Macaroo		#2	[url]	[-]
Full-Fledged Member Posts: 2161 06/29/08 11:25 AM Magnificent Mac	Art evolves, too. Compare the early Steamboat Willy offering to the comparative sophistication of Peter Pan or Cinderella. The computer is just another tool, the same as a pencil or paintbrush. People are still required to tell it what to do, and they're still the only source of inspiration. Don't know what's next, unless it would be immersive virtual reality complete with sensation. That seems to be pretty speculative, though. Mac "So... let me get this straight. You want to fly on a magic carpet to see the king of the potato people and you're telling me you're completely sane?"~ Arnold Rimmer
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sear		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 49302 06/29/08 12:23 PM CoAdmin.w/Grace06	Mac, It's my understanding that, Ansel Adams to the contrary notwithstanding, photography was for a long time not considered (legitimate) art. I'm not suggesting computer animation isn't higher res. than the old frame by frame gel method. But don't you get a different impression watching even superb computer animation, compared to the human drawn frame by frame technology? Even Disney couldn't keep up the by-hand method for a full feature. But some of the scenes from those classic animated Disney features was stunning. Perhaps we can consider this on the context of M.C. Escher. He made (mostly) B&W graphic art that appeared to be carefully drawn with perhaps pen & ink. But according to what I've read, Escher carved many of those images into blocks of wood. Then he'd make a few prints, perhaps only one. And then he'd destroy the wood blocks (evidently to preserve the value of the original). Does knowing this enhance our appreciation of Escher's work? It's the same picture either way. The seven deadly sins are: 1. Gluttony 2. Anger 3. Envy 4. Greed 5. Lust 6. Pride 7. Sloth
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SecretSimian		#4	[url]	[-]
Full-Fledged Member Posts: 142 06/29/08 09:57 PM	A movie is only as good as the story. The art is only a means of conveying emotion to the person watching so a successful scene depends on the artist's ability to convey that emotion to the viewer through his chosen medium and how well the scene fits within the movie. And I saw Wall-E on Saturday, it's great and you should go see it. The animation is fantastic and even though the story is pretty childish and trite the way it is done is wonderful.
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Cassakay		#5	[url]	[-]
Full-Fledged Member Posts: 1509 06/30/08 06:47 AM Smart Student	I saw Wall-E last night and I loved it! It reminded me of a cross between the old Tom and Jerry cartoons, Short Circuit, and Castaway. And I want to hug the daylights out of that little robot. I agree with you, SecretSimian, about the strength of the story. I also think that Wall-E demonstrates something just as creative as the old hand illustrated Disney movies, but the outlets are different. While computers are necessary to make a movie like Wall-E, the computers couldn't even begin to do it on their own. The story in the movie is not intricate, but all of the little asides, memorable characters that are distinctive despite saying next to nothing, and the sheer enjoyment the crew seemed to get out of making it. There are elements that could've been cut, like the extended look at space when Wall-E first leaves Earth, but the production crew was clearly enjoying the chance to show off and develop something that complex and visually stimulating. SecretSimian, did you have a favorite part? I loved the little cleaner robot that had to clean up after Wall-E. "The symmetry of form attainable in pure fiction cannot so readily be achieved in a narration essentially having less to do with fable than with fact. Truth uncompromisingly told will always have its ragged edges; hence the conclusion of such a narration is apt to be less finished than an architectual finial." -Herman Melville
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Macaroo		#6	[url]	[-]
Full-Fledged Member Posts: 2163 06/30/08 07:21 AM Magnificent Mac	But don't you get a different impression watching even superb computer animation, compared to the human drawn frame by frame technology? Sure. There'd be no point in different art techniques if people didn't get different impressions. I appreciate the classic animations, too, of course. Does knowing this enhance our appreciation of Escher's work? Not for me, no, but I'm not a collector. Mac "So... let me get this straight. You want to fly on a magic carpet to see the king of the potato people and you're telling me you're completely sane?"~ Arnold Rimmer
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sear		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 49312 06/30/08 11:09 AM CoAdmin.w/Grace06	"And I saw Wall-E on Saturday, it's great and you should go see it. The animation is fantastic and even though the story is pretty childish and trite the way it is done is wonderful." SS "I saw Wall-E last night and I loved it! It reminded me of a cross between the old Tom and Jerry cartoons, Short Circuit, and Castaway. And I want to hug the daylights out of that little robot." Cass Two interesting, persuasive reviews. Thanks to you both. "I'm not a collector." Mac Me too. But I don't have to be to appreciate the effort that went into those amazing works of art. I find SS' description of the "fantastic" animation entirely believable. I didn't see it yet. But I saw some of Ratatouille. And I found that rather fantastic. But the pains taking human effort just isn't there in computer generated graphics. The seven deadly sins are: 1. Gluttony 2. Anger 3. Envy 4. Greed 5. Lust 6. Pride 7. Sloth
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Macaroo		#8	[url]	[-]
Full-Fledged Member Posts: 2172 06/30/08 02:16 PM Magnificent Mac	But the pains taking human effort just isn't there in computer generated graphics Beg to differ, sear. The problems attending CGI are no less demanding than those of hand rendering. I usually watch the production extras on the DVDs I rent/buy, and the artists are not only required to have creative abilities, they need to have extensive technical expertise. An uninspired CGI movie that lacks both artistic flair and technical knowhow (rather like most of the ones offered every Saturday on the SciFi channel) is good for nothing more than popcorn-throwing ridicule. That being said, while it's possible to appreciate both kinds of art, I am sorry that the hand rendering has gotten too expensive and time consuming to compete. I hope there'll always be a niche for it, but the days of its supremacy are over. Mac "So... let me get this straight. You want to fly on a magic carpet to see the king of the potato people and you're telling me you're completely sane?"~ Arnold Rimmer
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Cassakay		#9	[url]	[-]
Full-Fledged Member Posts: 1512 06/30/08 10:26 PM Smart Student	Mac- I definitely agree about what skilled and time-consuming work designing is. Watching the extras on DVDs like "Toy Story" or "The Incredibles" is pretty persuasive. (I'm also happy that I'm not the only person in the world who like the commentaries and extras... sometimes it seems like it!) Hand-drawn stories like "Cinderella" or other old Disney films have a magic about them, too. It's different, but I'm not convinced that it's better. "The symmetry of form attainable in pure fiction cannot so readily be achieved in a narration essentially having less to do with fable than with fact. Truth uncompromisingly told will always have its ragged edges; hence the conclusion of such a narration is apt to be less finished than an architectual finial." -Herman Melville
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sear		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 49372 07/05/08 11:30 AM CoAdmin.w/Grace06	"The problems attending CGI are no less demanding than those of hand rendering." Mac Perhaps your hand is steadier than mine Mac. I suspect I could do the computer graphics stuff. But I'd have no prayer of doing the hand drawn stuff. No worries. I enjoy the hand drawn stuff. I couldn't sit through the entire Ratatouille. But I saw enough of it to recognize the evolution of the technology. Buzz Lightyear (or whatever the title of the movie that featured him) was tidy; different looking than the hand drawn animations of the past. But it was sparse. Ratatouille in comparison seemed deliberately, perhaps self-indulgently less sparse, perhaps even cluttered. I gather the complexity of detail that would swamp a human animation team is (in comparison) smooth sailing for computers. Whatever. The seven deadly sins are: 1. Gluttony 2. Anger 3. Envy 4. Greed 5. Lust 6. Pride 7. Sloth
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Grace06		#11	[url]	[-]
Full-Fledged Member Posts: 25543 07/05/08 11:51 AM Earth Spirit Administrator	sear this is probably old news. I am not sure what all it says, but I had it ready to post the night I left for Illinois. I'll post it anyway. http://uk.reuters.com/article/blogBurst/entertainmentNews?type=entertainmentNews&w1=B7ovpm21IaDoL40ZFnNfGe&w2=B8jfbZSr6eQszBokuVHMEIkH&src=blogBurst_UKentertainmentNews&bbPostId=B5epNgnRwEXPB3CmCx7k7JYYB4SYKEGTtZCXB2Xnk2m8XWIm&bbParentWidgetId=B8jfbZSr6eQszBokuVHMEIkH What is especially interesting about this film is that beneath this cute little robot love story, there lies a darker cautionary tale of what mankind's future could be. The world that Wall-E lives in is a desolate place, where the piles of garbage reach the heights of skyscrapers. The fragile plant that Wall-E finds is the only bit of green in the landscape, and the world is subject to horrible wind and sand storms. In this film, all of mankind's warnings of global warming have come to naught, and the aftermath of humanity's effect on the earth is frightening. Humans do exist in this futuristic world, but on the surface, the trashing of their home planet has not taught them any lessons. All of the humans live on space ships. These ships have been provided for them by the corporation "Buy n' Large," which is representative of the massive consumerism that led to earth's demise. All of the humans' needs are met by robotic means. They drink supersized drinks, hover around on gliders, and are constantly in front of TV screens. Their remote control lifestyle has also led the race to obesity. It is science fiction based on truth, however inconvenient. The environmental message is there and may be more apparent to the more adult viewers. However, the movie does not preach, nor does the message overwhelm the film. I tried to find the trailor but could not? How ever thanks sear, maybe I'll break kown and go to a movie. It sounds great. Thank You sear! Oh Six Only when the last tree has died and the last river been poisoned and the last fish been caught will we realise we cannot eat money. ~Cree Indian Proverb
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sear		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 49376 07/05/08 09:11 PM CoAdmin.w/Grace06	[My evil plan is working. I'm trying to trick Grace06 to go see a kiddie movie.] - or - Grace, If you don't want to go see an animated feature alone, bring some grandkids. If you don't have any, borrow some. [I hope you enjoy it Grace.] The seven deadly sins are: 1. Gluttony 2. Anger 3. Envy 4. Greed 5. Lust 6. Pride 7. Sloth
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The state of the art, of art: animated features vs human artists

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